21.08.2021, 08:40   #1
Profilfoto
Richard Rduch

About Image Editing

Photography or no photography
Photo editing and manipulation have been part of photography from the very beginning*. That’s a fact. Most photos, including so-called iconic images in photography, are staged and presented as spontaneous, or manually retouched, altered, or “corrected.” That’s also a fact.
A photo doesn’t have to show the absolute truth, as long as it’s not a document or proof of something. I argue that a photo doesn’t have to be a direct reflection of reality. A photo can be an image created with the help of imagination, a camera, and editing tools—because photo editing is inherently linked to photography, whether we like it or not. Many say, “Yes, but there are limits!” The truth is, no one can clearly define an objective and understandable boundary for photo editing or manipulation—when does it go too far, and why exactly at this point?
One thing is clear: our outrage, our possible protests, our love for purism and “authentic” photography don’t change anything. The world keeps moving forward, with or without us. What really matters is the final product—whether people like it or not. Very few care about how it was created.
I believe there’s room for everyone in photography: photographers, photo technicians, straight photographers, image creators, photo artists, and whatever else they call themselves. Tolerance might not be enough here—acceptance is what’s really needed. Whether we want to or not, photo editing plays a major role in the photography world, and that role is only growing.
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* 1868 book “Negative Developing and After-Manipulation” — techniques for image manipulation ranging from light corrections to overlays, multiple exposures, and swapping heads and content
* Around 1850, composite photography (retouched photo collages) was already known    
21.08.2021, 16:38   #2
Profilfoto
Mali Fox

Quote: Actually, no one can precisely define the exact boundary (objectively and clearly) for photo editing/manipulation—when does it go too far and why exactly at this point? End of quote

For me, the line is crossed when images are manipulated in a way that harms people. Otherwise, I fully agree with the post.

21.08.2021, 18:17   #3

Hobbyfotografin

Photo editing is a tool that no hobby photographer should categorically dismiss. For me, a good photo is simply one that I like and can say, "Yes, exactly like this."

Of course, it’s important to choose the settings and the subject correctly and optimally from the start so the photo already looks good — some people say, “That works for me,” and you just have to accept that.
But I believe that with every photo, even with perfect settings, there’s always room for improvement. Whether it’s adjusting shadows and highlights, straightening the horizon, correcting converging lines that don’t quite fit or are distracting, or removing sensor spots or other unwanted elements.

These are all tools that should be used. I know this is a controversial topic, and it often sparks heated debates among my friends, many of whom believe that any editing distorts a photo — but I don’t see it that way.
And then there’s swapping out the sky. Why not?
If I’m at a location with a great subject but limited time, and the sky is blown out and dull, I don’t really see it as manipulating the photo to adjust the sky. I could have been lucky and caught a beautiful sky. So why should I scrap the photo just because it doesn’t look great, when I can improve it?
As long as I’m not harming anyone, I find photo editing almost as interesting and creative as photography itself.
A photo’s primary purpose is to please, to be interesting, and to fulfill what I intend with it. Always keeping in mind the background — why, for what purpose, and for whom I took the photo — and editing accordingly, or not at all.

That’s my take on photo editing, from a hobby photographer still in the early stages of both photography and editing.
21.08.2021, 18:44   #4

Hobbyfotograf

@Mali Fox @Richard Rduch @Gabi Brabenec I completely agree.
In art, especially painting, it has been common practice for centuries to paint over images or to depict people more attractively than they actually are.
(otherwise, many a noble patron might have had a painter’s head on the chopping block)
It’s the same with sculptors.
So why not in photography?
What always surprises me is that once someone is successful, all their photos are considered top-notch—no matter how they look or how they were made.
But even in personal circles, amateurs rather than photographers often talk about things they really can’t judge (this happens in other fields too).
I experience this time and again. That’s why I’m here—to exchange ideas about photography with like-minded people.
First and foremost, a photo has to appeal to me. If others like it too, that’s great and makes you happy (at least I hope so).
How the photo is created is my business. Of course, there are rules and basics you should know, but you don’t have to follow them—that’s also my choice.
If others can’t handle that, that’s their problem.
And to get back to the topic: in any community, there will always be different opinions when trying to reach a conclusion—that’s normal.
The magic word here is ACCEPTANCE, and that’s where some people struggle.
For me, photography is a hobby—fun, joy in sharing images, personal growth, and feeling that you’ve improved.
As long as photos are involved, I don’t care how they’re edited—only the result matters.
Whether it’s compositing or a flower photo, everything has its place.
It’s also interesting to revisit Wikipedia now and then to see what a photo really is.
Everything is open, and anyone can do it—as long as there’s light involved, it’s light painting.
22.08.2021, 09:33   #5

Hobbyfotograf

Well, I think "photo montages" are like "science fiction." You can look at the image, but it’s not real.
A photo captures the exact moment when the shutter is pressed, and for that reason, it can’t be recreated—because the light, position, and even the subject can change dramatically within seconds.
The right moment in the right place is what really matters, regardless of whether the photo turns out good or bad.

I like both.
 
22.08.2021, 15:53   #6
Profilfoto
Mali Fox

I believe photography can't really be compared to image editing in the sense that new images are created from photographs. But photography is important to me because without it, I wouldn't be able to enjoy my hobby. 😃
22.08.2021, 16:37   #7
Richard Rduch really nailed it for me!!
That’s exactly my perspective on the topic of "image processing and compositing."

Michael
22.08.2021, 16:53   #8

Hobbyfotograf

I believe photography can't really be compared to image editing when it comes to creating entirely new images from photographs.  Mali Fox

Exactly what I’m saying! 👍
23.08.2021, 21:56   #9
In my opinion, editing is an essential part of every photo. In fact, if you think about it, even developing a RAW file counts as editing. We all want our photos of the same subject to stand out from everyone else’s. That’s where the photographer’s style or look comes into play. Does a photo always have to be realistic? Usually, it’s the images that don’t look entirely realistic that catch our eye and stick with us. 😉
23.08.2021, 22:43   #10

Hobbyfotograf

When a DJ remixes a hit, the result CAN be "better" than the original... but it doesn't have to be.
Often, it's marketing and especially the artist's name that make the difference. At least, that's how far the ranking goes—I don't think anyone here in the Photo Club has reached that level yet.
At a photography seminar, I once had the idea to show both the original and the edited version of each photo. This made it much easier to understand the vision and the editing steps, and it always sparked lively discussions.
24.08.2021, 08:24   #11

Hobbyfotograf

@Volker Böck, your example is a good one... let’s take a closer look:
A DJ mixes a hit (using music from other artists)... and creates a new hit.
But that doesn’t mean the DJ can actually play music. They’ve created something new from others’ music... they didn’t perform the music themselves.
It’s the same with photography: when I take a photo, I am photographing.
But if I mix “multiple” photos together, that doesn’t mean I can photograph. I could do that with photos from other artists, too!
That’s where the difference lies. Enhancing is, I think, normal; combining several images is certainly an art, but on its own, it’s not photography.
24.08.2021, 09:21   #12
Profilfoto
Richard Rduch

A DJ mixes several different music tracks. They don’t necessarily need to be able to play an instrument. In the end, music comes out of it.
A computer enthusiast combines several different photos. They don’t need to be a photographer. But in the end, a photo is created.

Both are allowed, under certain conditions, and in the end, music or a photo is produced.
Whether it’s a music cover or photo compositing, both are recognized forms of art.
Both belong to the realms of music or photography.
Whether we like it or not.
  PS.
Personally, I much prefer photo compositing using my own photos.
Only then can I truly feel like a genuine creator.
 
24.08.2021, 09:46   #13

Hobbyfotograf

 
Personally, I definitely prefer photo compositing using my own photos.
  Richard Rduch

That’s exactly the point where I agree with you.
Where I disagree is on the definition of a photo:
Here (since you’re probably not a fan of Wikipedia) is a quote from "Wortbedeutung.info"   "Meaning/Definition:
1) an image created with the help of a camera – short for photography"

The definition isn’t something you or I decide; it was established long before either of us was born, by the inventor who knew exactly what he intended.
So if you combine multiple photos "on the computer," you create an "image," maybe even a work of art, but not a new PHOTO.

Hopefully you now understand what I’m trying to say.
Your work is impressive, and some of your images are really good... but the composite ones are no longer photos—they are images.
It’s not about the effort, but about the term, the definition.
And it’s about combining and recreating, not just normal post-processing."
24.08.2021, 10:19   #14
Profilfoto
Richard Rduch

@Walter Busch   When a composite image is created from several individual photos (images taken with a camera!), the end result is still a photo. That’s completely logical and easy to understand for me. According to Wikipedia, this form clearly falls under photography (artistic photography). It is both an image and a photo, and the difference is just a matter of (minor) terminology.
 
24.08.2021, 15:10   #15

Administrator

"Meaning/Definition:
1) An image created with the help of a camera – a short form for photograph"
This definition wasn’t decided by you or me; it was established long before either of us was born, by the inventor who knew exactly what he wanted.

So, if you combine several photos "on the computer," you create an "image," possibly even a piece of art, but not a new PHOTO.
Walter Busch

I would prefer Wikipedia’s explanation here:
Photography or Photographie (from Ancient Greek φῶς phōs, genitive φωτός photós ‘light’ and γράφειν graphein ‘to write’, ‘to paint’, ‘to draw’, meaning ‘drawing with light’)
18.09.2021, 09:24   #16
Manipulation already begins the moment the shutter is pressed: what you choose to photograph and what you leave out.
For example, the pretty fishing boats on the beach are captured in the photo, but the ugly warehouse behind the photographer is left out.

Best regards, Mike
27.12.2021, 15:39   #17
The original possibilities for manipulating photography were quite limited, and the depiction of "reality" through photographic means was constrained by the technical conditions of the time—so it wasn’t really "manipulation" in the sense we’re discussing here. In fact, it was precisely photography’s apparent closeness to reality that set it apart from painting back then. But as humans tend to do—well, at least some of them—they started to creatively use everything at their disposal to express themselves.
As photography evolved, not least due to technological advances, there were increasingly more ways to give photographic images a personal touch through manipulation (up to artistic distortion, where the original subject is no longer clearly recognizable). With today’s capabilities, it’s easy to get lost in the possibilities, and often, in my view, the image and its message get lost along the way. There are also huge differences in the quality of manipulation—taking it to the extreme, you have technically well-executed manipulated images that say nothing, and on the other hand, poorly manipulated images (in terms of craftsmanship) that are celebrated as great art!
It’s tough to have a meaningful discussion about this, right? Something is always lost, and something new is always gained. Nowadays, people carry around large-format cameras again or deliberately blur their shots with high-end digital cameras (I think that’s called ICS) to create what they feel are works of art.

From my perspective, all of these are endearing attempts to derive something from life that gives meaning to oneself or others. And I find that entirely legitimate and worthy of recognition—even if it’s sometimes hard to appreciate 😉
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