30.12.2021, 17:13   #1

Drop Shadows and Image Silvering

A friendly exchange of ideas between Josef and Andreas to collectively expand their knowledge.
@Josef Prinz Hello Josef,   Since it’s generally considered rude—and I feel the same way—to go off-topic in posts and basically hijack the discussion, and since I feel the same about comments on photos where people talk about something completely unrelated instead of the photo itself, and since you described yourself as a polite person, I’m sure you agree with this.
So, I’ve set up a thread here for the two of us where you can ask questions about any photos you like, regardless of which one is being discussed.
I also hope to finally get some answers to a few questions from you. In fact, there are questions I haven’t even asked because I’ve received no response to even the simplest questions asked directly and multiple times.
    Here’s the link again for reference: https://www.photoclub.io/fotos/foto?p=34318&profile=3479&userid=3479&oF=f.comments&oD=asc   We can continue here from your last comment.
  "Andreas, how much interest is there in the 21st century in analog photography? Prints are still popular today! Just save the image file on a digital storage device (SD card, USB stick, or phone) and go to the nearest print kiosk (supermarket, drugstore)! Easy image editing is possible.

Supply & demand! Your first photo for the club as an offer! Paris: Eiffel Tower / B&W Your text: camera/lens, film used, paper! Interest from members!

Do you think people googled to understand your text?"     Well Josef, even if this doesn’t fit your idea at all, analog photography is definitely still popular—actually more so in recent years than in the late 2000s. If you’re fine with prints from discount stores, that’s your choice. But I suspect you don’t have your photos printed anymore.
But is that a reason not to be allowed to show them here? Do you think photography is only digital? Or only color?
I guess what really bothered you was that someone was obviously only showing black-and-white photos. You didn’t say that directly because, as you wrote yourself, you’re polite. Being honest and polite would have been to address it directly. Others do that too. It might seem blunt, but it’s honest and in a way shows respect.
Anyway, you probably assumed my photos were digital shots with black-and-white applied just to look cooler. If you had read my forum introduction, you would have seen this:
“Why photograph photos?
I like classic black-and-white film; it suits my way of seeing better than smooth digital images. So for me, the only option is to photograph or scan the prints. Please understand.” Apparently, you didn’t read that. Hence the back-and-forth and the question whether I’ve ever developed film myself, and so on.
It was actually clear that I shoot analog—you could have read that and asked whether it was film or digital.
Quote:“... is just a reaction to B&W and almost neon red. B&W photographed?
Sorry, I’m polite and will refrain from commenting.
The recently uploaded images have nothing to do with B&W.”
A response to what?
No, instead you say it has nothing to do with black-and-white photography. You yourself show some conversions from digital images to grayscale, noting “soft grain, fine grain,” which is nonsense since there’s no silver involved—just an algorithm trying to simulate it. I’m still waiting for an answer to my repeated question why my photos have nothing to do with black-and-white photography.   “Supply and demand!” Is that a heading or what should I make of it?
  Regarding the Paris photo: If you recall, because you didn’t address the discussion directly out of politeness, and because a club member actually concluded from the EXIF data that it was a digital shot, I added the film information. The focus should be on the image content, but apparently other things seem more important to you. You haven’t commented on the content of any photo so far.
  Interest from members! What is that supposed to mean?
  No, I don’t think anyone googles to find that information. A simple question to me would be enough.
  I have no idea what your issue with my photos actually is. You haven’t really commented on the content. I get the impression you want to provoke. For example, I interpret your question about how long to expose at f/132 that way. A question like that either shows the asker has no photographic experience or, as I suspect here, is just trying to provoke.
It’s also worth noting that I actually gave a very precise answer.
But you got loud because you didn’t like the answer and thought it wasn’t detailed enough, telling me not to respond with a counter-question.
  By the way, I’m still waiting for at least one answer from you.
  My full answer to the f/132 question was:
"Exposure time at f/132? Have you at least heard about the exposure triangle and how shutter speed, aperture, and film sensitivity work together? But the answer is: it depends on the light value and the parameters derived from it how long the exposure time is at f/132. The aperture is fixed."   The initial questions were a bit pointed but stemmed from the suspicion that someone was deliberately pretending to be ignorant. That, by the way, is also rude and disrespectful to the conversation partner. But the answer was absolutely precise for your question.
  Once again, I ask you to answer my question about the black-and-white photos I posted—why they have nothing to do with black-and-white photography.
  Thank you Best regards, Andreas
30.12.2021, 18:55   #2

Hobbyfotograf

Very interesting, I’m curious to see how this will develop from here.
30.12.2021, 20:02   #3

Hobbyfotograf

@Andreas Friedrichs
I'll get back to you in detail by January 2nd at the latest.
My venue will remain closed, but I’m still doing catering.
f132, my analog light meter tops out at f90.

Your photo of the Seine: 👍, for a reproduction it looks great with nice contrast, especially in the lower and right parts of the image.
For the sky in your photos, try using less light.

I gave up my darkroom almost 20 years ago and sold all my equipment about 6 or 7 years ago.

Analog is making a comeback—not just photos but film too.

Have a great evening. 😉
31.12.2021, 15:40   #4
@Josef Prinz
Oh yes, it’s definitely frustrating when the light meter maxes out at f90. Mine tops out at f32.
I can just imagine people getting all upset when the kitchen scale only shows 500g because that’s its limit.
You can only bake with a maximum of 500g of flour.

Oh, the photo is about the reproduction.
Well, when I go out to eat, I always ask which pots the chef uses. And of course, where the scale’s limit is.

Happy New Year!
01.01.2022, 21:13   #5
@Josef Prinz

Hi Josef, I hope you had a great start to the New Year.
I’m also hoping to get an answer to my question right at the beginning of the year:
“Why do my black and white photos have nothing to do with black and white?”

Thanks so much, and wishing you a healthy New Year.

Best regards, Andreas
07.01.2022, 18:43   #6
Days come and days go.

What a pity!
21.01.2022, 16:03   #7
"A bit arrogant—twice more perfect isn’t possible!"

BAM!
  The expert is amazed, and as a layperson, I’m left wondering. Not about the supposed arrogance. Nope, why? Healthy self-confidence is definitely something to admire.
But about this:
"Josef Prinz explicitly asks for constructive feedback on this photo. How does this photo come across to you? What could have been done differently or better?"   EXCUSE ME?
I’m thinking these are two “perfect” shots?
Okay, one probably doesn’t have much to do with black-and-white photography if you’re being strict. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding and THIS is what black-and-white photography really is.
A shot where you don’t worry about the tonal values during the capture or whether any filters are applied. No, with true black-and-white photography, you handle that later on the computer—or you just don’t do it at all.
  Perfect? I recently saw a discussion on that in another thread. It didn’t even require a big debate. The reasons for perfection were brief and to the point.
I assume that if something is perfect, constructive feedback is completely unnecessary. Now just imagine someone nitpicking something perfect?
Unthinkable—it wouldn’t be perfect then.
Or, despite all the arrogance, were there still doubts?
  Cheers, Andreas
21.01.2022, 16:58   #8

Handyknipser

andreas: There's an old saying: those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
21.01.2022, 17:34   #9
Oh Heinz, that’s the thread from Josef and me.
But feel free to tell me elsewhere how you relate that saying to me—just please not here.
23.03.2022, 05:31   #10
I’ll just quote:
“About 80 people who understood the meaning of Fair Play! €38 membership fees” Joe
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